Talent Build Dilemma

18 Comments

1. 

   Dann / 09/01/2009

   Unless it’s been secretly changed then no it should not effect your libram.
   Since the buff is a result of your libram proc­c­ing rather than an effect caused by the seal.

   Dont worry, you havent missed any­thing, you’d be appauled at how many pal­adins can­not jus­tify their build when ques­tioned. I often stop and inspect Pal­adins then ask them what the fig they were think­ing. ^_^

   It’s funny that now you’ve brought it up & got me really think­ing about it:
   Seals of the Pure + Heart of the Cru­sader = 3.45% extra Crit for the entire raid?

   Reply
2. 

   Aureilie / 11/01/2009

   I real­ize I’m a bit late, but I’ll explain the one point in Improved Judge­ments. It is for the pop­u­lar (and effec­tive) 96969 rota­tion. With two points in Imp Judge­ments, this rota­tion is impos­si­ble, and over­all low­er­ing your threat and mit­i­ga­tion.
   
Prep SoV
00.0 HS
01.5 HotR
03.0 Judgement
04.5 (free) <-- AS
06.0 Cons
07.5 HotR
09.0 HS
10.5 (free) <-- SoR
12.0 Judgement
13.5 HotR
15.0 Cons
16.5 (free) <-- SoV
18.0 HS
19.5 HotR
21.0 Judgement
22.5 (free) <-- SoR
24.0 Cons
25.5 HotR
27.0 HS
28.5 (free) <-- SoV
30.0 Judgement
31.5 HotR
33.0 Cons
34.5 (free) <-- AS


   In regards to Divine Guardian, it’s far from a nec­es­sary tal­ent, but being that we get so many extra tal­ent points to throw around, it’s nice for fights like Sarth with a lot of raid dam­age when off­tank­ing and it’s nice for some mit­i­ga­tion on things like Maly­gos phase two, even if you are main tanking.

   Reply
3. 

   Dann / 12/01/2009

   I do have a ques­tion regard­ing your tal­ent build. (which you need to recon­sider imo)

   Why bother tak­ing Kings?
   Kings (in my eyes) is a buff for tanks, but I know that you will be buff­ing Sanct which is essen­tial for tank­ing for peri­ods longer then 14 sec­onds.
   Seems like 5 points wasted to me.

   Also you have 2 points in Vin­di­ca­tion? why? If i’m not mis­taken 99% of the games boss’s are immune to this anyway?

   Dann
   Sacred Shield

   Reply
4. 

   Tepisor / 12/01/2009

   @Dann — Yes, my build is strange but I chose it because:

   1) My guild is only doing 10-man raid­ing and I’m 90% the only Pal­adin in the raid;
   2) Took Vin­di­ca­tion because of trash, solo quest­ing and because I’m mostly off­tank­ing. Also, couldn’t find any­thing bet­ter to put my last 3 points in (please don’t say IHoJ or Seals of Pure);

   Reply
5. 

   Dann / 13/01/2009

   Fair enough. It does seem that most pro­tec­tion specs are left with 3 points to through away. I spent mine on Reck­on­ing. Nah i’m not a fan of iHoJ or SotP.

   But it may be worth look­ing at Con­vic­tion if you want some­thing more viable out­side of raids.
   Of course they’re your tal­ent points and you’ll spend them as you damn well like. :p

   Reply
6. 

   Dann / 13/01/2009

   *excuse my typo’s. I didn’t get much sleep.
   I just looked at my reply and cringed a little.

   Must learn to read my own com­ments before posting…

   Reply
7. 

   Dirz / 30/01/2009

   Why is BoSanc bet­ter than Kings for tank­ing? I’m only doing naxx10 and VOA25 so either works for me, but I usu­ally use Kings so the peons (DPS) think that I am an uber tank with 35k health:)

   Reply
   • 

     Tepisor / 31/01/2009

     Greater Bless­ing of Sanctuary

     Because of the dam­age reduc­tion and mana return.

     Reply
   • 

     Aureilie / 31/01/2009

     Actu­ally, it’s sit­u­a­tional. If you are at gear level, or above gear level, for the con­tent, BoSanc is bet­ter, being that you get the mana return. If you’re below gear level, Kings is actu­ally bet­ter because of the boost to avoid­ance, mit­i­ga­tion and sta­mina it will net you. Obvi­ously though, hav­ing both is best. ^-^

     Reply
     • 

       Tepisor / 31/01/2009

       It all goes down to your style of play: bless­ings, rota­tions, gear, all the shizzle.

       If you get the job done, don’t think any­one will com­plain that you’re using BoK instead of BoSanc or the other way around.

       Reply
8. 

   Furiouslight / 24/02/2009

   Nor­mally, peo­ple know me as Shad­owsilk on Gar­rosh. My level 80 Rogue and just wanted to intro­duce myself say hello and post a few comments.

   I recently was asked by the guild since I play reg­u­larly to level up a Pal­adin Tank as its the one toon I had closer to level. I lev­eled to 70 as Ret­ri­bu­tion and have recently respecced and began gear­ing as a tank.

   I have cho­sen an extremely inter­est­ing spec and despite crit­i­cism am excited to test it at level 80 where I believe the effec­tive­ness will shine.

   How­ever, like you I do not use SoR or SoV as my tank­ing Seal. I usu­ally have up SoW or SoL. I tend to judge with JoL or JoW respec­tively and never have needed to judge with JoJ.

   I took Divine Guardian and for what I believe was with pur­pose. Some peo­ple con­struc­tively crit­i­cized my use of Divine Shield while tank­ing. Mainly, because of the loss of aggro. How­ever, I use it to breathe. If in a sit­u­a­tion with a poor Main Healer appear­ing as though they are specced for group heals, I force them to play their healer so they are giv­ing the heals how I need them and I effec­tively reduce the penalty for drop­ping aggro by absorb­ing the dam­age into the shield instead of the way Hand of Sac­ri­fice trans­fers the dam­age to me.

   Also, I will be tak­ing Deflec­tion, Bene­dic­tion, Improved Judge­ments, Heart of the Cru­sader and Sanc­ti­fied Seals. I may pos­si­bly change this from Bene­dic­tion to Con­vic­tion if I can find a way to reduce the time I am OOM.

   Cur­rently at Level 70 and at Def for level +123 I am absorb­ing 62% of the dam­age on runs and Have yet to loose aggro.

   Any­way, I hope my jus­ti­fi­ca­tion for tak­ing the points in Divine Guardian were well explained, how­ever, I am open to suggestions.

   Reply
9. 

   Dirz / 25/02/2009

   It is good that you havent lost agro but is that because the dps had to slacken or was it because you were danc­ing prop­erly (I love bei­ing able to use heigan ter­mi­nol­ogy again:)) The prob­lem with using divine shield while tank­ing is it means you arent doing your job. When yuo bub­ble and the mobs go else­where that is BAD, as it means you need to pick them up again– the hard­est part about being a tank is trust­ing your healer, even in a ran­dom pug, to heal you with­out you always twitch­ing to hit one of our oh shi­iit but­tons. That said once 3.1 comes out we wont be hav­ing these issues as much, although I’ll be forced to grab reckoning…

   Reply
   • 

     Tepisor / 25/02/2009

     Why would you be forced to grab Reckoning?

     Reply
     • 

       Dann / 25/02/2009

       Hey Tep,

       They’re mak­ing it so that Ardent Defender requires 5/5 Reckoning.

       Obvi­ously it’s still on the Beta so we dont know that this will go live. But at the moment it looks like we’ll be grab­bing 5/5 Reckoning.

       You can check out the new Trees @mmochampion

       Reply
       • 

         Aureilie / 25/02/2009

         That’s a bug in the mmocham­pion cal­cu­la­tor and has been con­firmed that you can get AD with­out Reck­on­ing on the PTR.

         Reply
         • 

           Dann / 25/02/2009

           Well that is the best news i’ve heard all day. Thanks Aurei
10. 

    Nyrox / 23/03/2009

    i cant believe u dont like Seals of the pure its 15% more dam­age on ur judge­ments and the tick on your seal of vengence/coruption that’s more tps but now im torn between that or divin­ity or con­vic­tion ive heard tht takin con­vic­tion greatly increases your tps but is it really more than SOTP is con­vic­tion worth puut­ing 5 in over divin­ity and judge­ments of the just man teh days of teh cookie cut­ter spec where so easy damn u blizz XD

    Reply
11. 

    Ohmymoogle / 02/04/2009

    You cast divine shield while tank­ing boss ?

    No won­der their pissed off at you and rightly so.

    That is like adding more oil onto the fire. Your only adding to the problem.

    Tanks are to tank the boss, and nobody else. But when you decide to bub­ble, the boss will then go to your friends and their dead and raid wipes because.…. you felt heal­ers were doing a crappy job so why not pun­ish them to teach them and raid a lesson ???

    The only rea­son you would be able to jus­tify bub­bling your­self is only if you com­mu­ni­cated to an off­tank with suf­fi­cient time for them to react who can imme­di­ately grab aggro after you bub­ble. If not, then yes your at fault.

    Say for exam­ple if you were in Maly­gos 10 and your the only tank, you can not jus­tify bub­bling yourself .…

    If heal­ers are not heal­ing you fast enough you should com­mu­ni­cate to them and/or raid leader to get the heal­ers to up their game.… it’s either the heal­ers are slow­pokes at heal­ing, they are under­geared, or it is your gear/gems/enchants/talents that is mak­ing it hard for them to heal you, or you your­self are under­geared .…. you need to com­mu­ni­cate with the heal­ers to find out which is the prob­lem, then fix that, rather then wip­ing raid just to prove a point o_O;

    I lead many pug raids and i make it a point to inspect every­ones gear so i can decide if they can tank, dps or heal… so that is one issue out of the way. Any prob­lem with heal­ing would then be heal­ers incom­pe­tence which i try to ask them to do bet­ter or i replace them with heal­ers that under­stand heal­ing is a whack a mole speed con­cept :X

    What i found heal­ers like is hav­ing time to react for heals, mean­ing the tanks should have lots of sta­mina, lots of avoidance.

    27k Hp is usu­ally the norm for a raid tank.

    540 defense. My defense is cur­rently 550 but i want to get it to 560.

    dodge ( after i am def capped i usu­ally pump a lot into dodge ). My dodge is roughly 26–27 %

    Parry ( i don’t really go out of my way to max this out, i only even out the stats so it’s not too big a gap between dodge and parry ). My parry is roughly 19–20%

    Block = 14% is i remem­ber cor­rectly. Because of my low block i usu­ally spam Holy Shield and ensure it is active all the time. I only invest in lit­tle block so that total avoid­ance reaches 102% Any block after that i read is not useful.

    [Block ( this is after holy shield is active ) + dodge + parry = total avoidance.]

    102% — total avoid­ance = roughly how much avoid­ance or block you need to reach the block cap.

    Reply